Originally published: 2016-01-29 20:14:02
Last Updated Sunday 31-Jan-2016 11 pm
Updates are added to the end of the post…
Let’s start off with why Ammon Bundy is doing what he is doing with his own words in an interview with the Liberal media trying to put a hole in his story…
Like I said, trying….
Why This Post
Last night (28-Jan), I saw something mentioned on FoxNews about the FBI noting that LaVoy Finicum had reached for his pockets just before one of the agents killed him.
Not having noticed this on my first viewing, I viewed the video again.
I will start by saying any law enforcement as well as Federal agency is not going to know what to expect in such a situation and should react accordingly to the situation if a clear and present danger exists for a gun to be pointed at them or if they find their own lives in a life-threatening situation.
The details in the video are not good enough (in my perspective) to tell exactly what LaVoy did.
My first impression before the FoxNews report was LeVoy had turned sideways and his arms visually ‘disappeared’ momentarily due to the angle and height of the camera and lack of detail in the video.
At the angle of the aerial shot (probably from a plane as it never stopped circling), as well as height of the plane, the image details are vague at best — which is scary as we have satellites that could have easily read the license plates if they were pointed towards them.
Watching the video is more like watching a shadow show than much of anything else.
Viewing the video a 2nd time, I noticed just after LeVoy’s arms ‘disappeared’ – and presuming he went for his coat pockets — they went back up just as quickly, quick enough his arms were over his head when he was shot in the face, probably killing him instantly.
Perhaps LaVoy realized his mistake of not keeping his arms up as well as the shooter was anxious from Ammon and crew running the 1st road block (at this point, it is not known how many in the 2nd road block knew a shot was fired at Ammon’s vehicle, thereby only compounding the matter).
The Events by Timeline
That stated, let’s stick with the timeline of events to get a better understanding of the mindset and demeanor building up during this whole time on both sides of this fatality…
My notes are from the edited version, which is viewable here…
If you’re interested in the unedited version, that is viewable above (2nd video down)…
- Prior to all this, in videos provided by Pete Santelli during the entire standoff up until the killing of LaVoy, Ammon was always drilling law enforcement on what they were going to do next and up until this point they had obliged the information.
Ammon even noted some things he had not shared with them so they would know and understand what happened.
In essence, Ammon was attempting to build some form of trust with the law for a purpose.
From what I have seen, Ammon and the law agents only dickered over the legalities of what the Federal govt could and could not do when it comes to the land, and the legalities of their being on the resort property (remember, the FBI had several times tried to instigate problems by sending moles out to pretend they were the protesters so no one was letting their guard down).
Many of these videos are available on Pete Santilli’s YouTube channel (he was the only journalist authorized by Ammon, all others had to do things the hard way).
Pete was also arrested during the shooting — his crime? He asked the Sherriffs if he could take the women and children out of the area; per Pete’s crew the FBI just cuffed and jailed him without saying anything.
- LaVoy and Ammon did have a scheduled meeting with the Sheriffs and were being accompanied by several others (why? don’t know) meaning from their perspective upon departing for the meeting everything was good, just tense…
- During their drive, Ammon and crew, who was being tailed by 2 agency vehicles, decided to stop.
We have no clue where the two agency vehicles came from as they were not in the wider view presented before the 26:24 time mark.
Whoever was driving (I believe Ammon was) brought the vehicle to a stop — at this point it would not be unlike Ammon to phone his Point of Contact with the Sheriff’s department to find out what was happening… however, we are not sure what he did at this point yet nor what conversation was had …
- Though the FBI says it was 3 min 47 seconds for the lapse in time when Ammon’s vehicle stopped, my observation noted Ammon stopped at 26:40 and started moving again at 33:37, more like 6 minutes and 57 seconds
- Ammon’s and Veronica Short’s account noted this was where the first shot came their way and they decided to get out of there; not the wisest of strategies as the situation has now escalated.
We don’t know why any agent(s) fired as no one had exited the vehicle, no one had rolled their window down, no one displayed nor pointed their gun(s) at them.
At that point, Ammon and crew were on the defense — if they wanted a fight they would have started to shoot back; I don’t know about the others but I do know Ammon was in the military (Marines) so he wasn’t unfamiliar with what to do while being shot at.
- At the second stop, according to Ammon as well as Victoria Smart, LaVoy exited the vehicle (34:53) to draw the focus on him and away from the vehicle — and he did so with his arms in the air…
- At the point LaVoy’s arms ‘disappear’ (35:01) is apparently the same time the FBI says he went for his pockets.
If LaVoy moved normally (whatever normal is considered) or quickly, most law officers would start shooting (and from all appearances it appears he did)…
If LaVoy moved slowly they would have time to verbally warn him…
Either case, LaVoy had to be confused as well as concerned as he was on his way to see the Sheriff (if the same Sheriff was seen by him at the second or even first roadblock, we don’t know yet).
Also the FBI said it was his left arm that was reaching for something — they apparently were unaware that LaVoy was right-handed.
- LaVoy’s arms return over his head while he’s on the ground (35:12) — reports are the LaVoy was hit in the face first with 3 shots followed by 3 more to his body, don’t know how long afterwards the agents shot into his body.
- After this point several more flashes are seen as well as snow flying with the eventual surrender of everyone in the car.
- Lavoy is driving the white truck, not Ammon Bundy.
- When the truck is first stopped by police vehicles lights flashing, LaVoy stops the truck in the middle of the road, rolls down the windows and puts both hands out the window., then nothing changes in the video for a couple of minutes. A subtle, dispersed flash of light appears in the video followed immediate by Lavoy’s white truck pulls away.
- Why did Lavoy stop the truck in the middle of the road? To allow the police to approach the truck on both sides.
- Why did he put his arms out of the window? Because the police told him to do so.
> > > These two steps by LaVoy show a willingness to co-operate with the FBI.
As Victoria says (who was in LaVoy’s truck): shots were fired by police at LaVoy but missed LaVoy. At this point, LaVoy and those in the truck, know that the police intend to kill them.
Therefore, LaVoy pulls away fast. The authorization to use deadly force had been given already by Oregon State Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum, turning what could have been a controlled situation into an ambush.
Again, there was no probable cause for OR AG Rosenblum to escalate this situation to the use of deadly force.
My thanks to Bud Bromley for correcting my incorrect content as noted in my facebook notes of this same post.
Eyewitness Account by Victoria Smart
The Bundy’s provided Victoria Smart’s account of LaVoy Finicum’s murder on their YouTube channel shortly after they were able to talk with Victoria, you can see that video here…
[ video no longer available ]
Truthfully, I believe Ammon didn’t play his cards right when it came to strategy.
He was asking great questions of the Sheriff and played down anything that would start a heated argument, doing all he could to keep it low level as well as build whatever trust he could.
Where he lacked was in strategy: you never keep a large group of people together (3 or more) with loaded armament when dealing with the law.
He also should have been alone with LaVoy instead of a group.
Everyone should have been traveling 2 to a car — if they couldn’t do that, then whatever they could with only 2 to a car.
If the Sheriff wanted everyone involved to appear in front of him then the question is why?
This would have been the first time in all the meetings that more than 4 people would be traveling.
By placing only 2 to a vehicle, Ammon would dispersed everyone over a wide area thereby liquidating the force of arms that is present when several are present in a confined space.
It would have been much more difficult for the agencies to manage as well.
Another factor that lead to the killing came from a higher up in command — Oregon State Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum gave the Sheriff the go-ahead to use deadly force to end the situation.
No situation occurred during the entire standoff at the refuge warranted the command to use deadly force — in my opinion, Rosenblum’s order was the first domino of many that fell with this situation resulting in an unnecessary hardships and a death.
Last strategy point: Everyone there was from out-of-state, that put the onus on Ammon instead of on the residents of Oregon that agreed with Ammon.
Taking this on himself as well as with other out-of-state volunteers puts him at a strategic and defensive disadvantage.
Martial law has not been called — if it had, then the onus disappears.
If anything, Ammon and crew should have been counseling the Oregonians what to do…
Practicing Discernment is a Constant Thing
What is common with everyone in this tragic event, what is getting the Oregon State Attorney General, the FBI, Ammon and crew, and the lack of Oregonians into trouble, is the lack of discernment, the lack of wisdom.
That does not mean practicing discernment and being wise would have saved LaVoy’s life, for that we will never know…
But what we do know is this: anytime there has been someone who can recognize the differences in one situation from another, can discern where the onus lies and where it should lie, and knows how to turn the tables of accountability and responsibility back to where they belong, there has been much success.
We are seeing some wisdom , such as in Ammon’s questioning of the Sheriff’s during his meetings with him.
However, questions are not enough, they provide great information but a leader who is very wise with strategy knows how to increase the value of that information to protect what he needs to protect — at all levels.
Seeking wisdom first as well as understanding is one of the few commands in Proverbs that applies directly to the life of the reader…
Are we really seeing this?
I’m raising the bar here, the last thing we need to do is hit anyone over the head with it…
The Last Word
Many sheriffs and police officers are fully aware of what is going on and are finding themselves between a rock and a hard place.
One such is Sheriff Richard Mack and he has started an organization to address such issues – the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (cspoa.org/).
Per Ben Swan of Truth in Media, Sheriff Mack is the Sheriff’s Sheriff.
Here’s a summary of the CSPOA mission…
… today, our country is dying and all the experts say we’re on the right track or if we are not, that there’s nothing we can do about it. I disagree; there is something we can do! Our “leaders” continually urge us to stay on the Titanic and they count on our ignorance and apathy to keep us on board.
The questions are:
Can we save America? And
Will enough people get involved and dedicate themselves to make this dream a reality?
The answers lie within our grasp and come from the foundation of our country. The principles are embodied within the Declaration of Independence and outlined in the Constitution.
Law enforcement and Sheriff’s like Richard Mack and the members of the CSPOA need our support as well as new members — check them out and be sure to share with anyone you may know in law enforcement…
Give their facebook page is a great start as well.
You can listen to Sheriff Mack’s take on everything here in his interview with Ben Swan…
If you are still with me, then one last request — if you believe LaVoy Finicum was murdered by the Federal Agents, then please sign the petition requesting a full investigation by the U.S. Attorney General by 26-Feb.
At least 100,000 signatures are needed
Just click here, fill out the form and submit, be sure verify your email address (otherwise your signature is not counted) and then share the petition with family, friends, social media…
If the link doesn’t work, the short URL is http://j.mp/LaVoyPetition
Bud Bromley is a trusted friend on the social network and has provided more information on the situation that is very relevant to this post. I am taking the liberty to share what he posted on his facebook wall, verbatim…
“A forceful rebuke of federal criminal activity against the Hammond Family of Burns, Oregon, by Milwauke County, Wisconsin Sheriff Davie A. Clarke Jr., …
… in a podcast a week ago, talked about civil disobedience being sometimes necessary to correct the path of abusive federal agencies. Clarke’s show, which can be found on Stitcher dot com, was devoted entirely to the Oregon standoff between citizens and the BLM. Armed protesters have peacefully taken over a vacant federal building outside the town of Burns, in order to draw attention to the plight of the Hammonds. You can listen to the episode by clicking HERE. Sheriff Clarke was the Sheriff of the Year at CSPOA for 2013, and has been in demand on national news outlets to share his conservative, no-nonsense brand of law enforcement ideas, which include suggesting his constituents purchase and train with firearms so they can defend themselves from attacks. The standoff in Oregon is in its second week, and the federal building where the armed protesters are squatting has been basically quiet, even though there are swat teams, military special operators, and FBI undercover agents posing as militia, all in the area. The goal of the occupation of the wildlife refuge headquarters is to force the BLM to return the land to the people who need it to make a living. Another goal is to secure the release of a ranching father and son who have been sent to prison for a second time for the same offenses for which they were originally convicted. Sheriff Clarke outlines the history of the dispute over rural land…
Article: County Sheriff slams BLM and Understands Oregon Protestors
FBI Press Release from the Portland District: Remarks by SAC Greg Bretzing at a Press Conference to Address the Ongoing Situation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
The fact that Ryan Bundy was shot blows a huge hole in the story told by FBI special agent in charge Greg Bretzing. Ryan Bundy was riding in the white truck with Lavoy Finicum.
A video was released on YouTube by Enhanced Video, zoomed in 2K version in color, stabilized, slow motion at 30% speed at the end…
The first shot is not in this video (about 6, 7 seconds before) — from some accounts, LaVoy had his rifle over his left should and his pistol was holstered on his right side.
Even if he did, all movements by LaVoy are clearly to his left abdomen (not towards any of his guns) where he was shot 3 times until the he was shot in the face at which point he went down, being instantly killed.
The FBI continued with two more shots even though he had already been down and dead.
Again, if the order to used deadly force had not been given, LaVoy would still be alive — none of the agents at any point in time had a gun pointed at them nor did any of those in the refuge show any aggression towards using them.
UPDATE (30-Jan-2016 10pm ET)
Hammond County Sheriff David Ward’s notice to the public set the stage — many of the militia had already been in town for 2 to 3 weeks at the time of this notice and the towns people were welcoming the militia as new neighbors…
Note the presumptive defensive are argumentative tone in the second paragraph, if they wanted to overthrow the federal government, the militia would have been focused on D.C. and not Burns.
In all of Ammon’s videos, no mention of overthrowing anyone was mentioned neither — before and after this notice…
Even though there had been no physical nor strategic confrontation with the FBI and any other law enforcement by the militia, even though they did everything they could to reach out and establish some level of trust, the FBI kept this as a hostile situation even without the lack of evidence of any hostility (or is that why the FBI wasn’t brought in on many of the demonstrations resulting in many blacks being killed?
because there was hostility and they didn’t want casualties on their side?
Think about it and let that sink in — what are you going to do if you see the FBI coming after you given their history with ranchers???…
KrisAnne Hall Discusses Killing of LaVoy Finicum
KrisAnne Hall, a U.S. Constitution expert and the legal advisor for the Coalition of Western States, was interviewed on the 27th Jan on The Joe Miller Show (the day after LaVoy was killed).
Ms. Hall, who was just in Burns, Oregon the previous week of the killing taught several constitutional law courses,and spoke with protesters present at the refuge.
She shares she has a close contact on the refuge, discusses what happened with Ammon Bundy’s sister as well as her involvement the day after the shooting for a peaceful settlement with the FBI in allowing militia to leave.
Ms. Hall states that no shots were fired by any of the protesters, but that there multiple shots fired by federal agents at the protesters’ car.
Additionally, Ms. Hall states that LaVoy Finicum was “summarily executed,” shot while he was on his knees with his hands in the air.
It is interesting to note that the FBI knew everyone they arrested but had no information on the militia that remained at the refuge — take that as you will, but it stinks of a sting.
Currently, inside sources in Burns OR have confirmed that the Burns people will be holding a rally to
- request the resignation of Harney County Judge Steve Grasty
- request the resignation of Sheriff David Ward
- tell the FBI to get the hell of town…
Both the judge and the sheriff maintained a defiant posture and failed to communicate at any level with the militia while telling the public they wanted a peaceful solution.
Last any of us have heard, you need to talk with the people in question, not remain distant, arrogant and tyrannical.
KrisAnne provides much more information, please listen-in and give her a Like on facebook
UPDATE (1-Feb-2016 12am ET)
The update I have for tonight takes a tangent and needs a separate post — and for a very strong reason.
Thanks to one of my facebook friends, the connection between several relationships are becoming extremely clear and it is unquestionable as to what is happening — remember, the guilty will deny immediately out of reflex, and they will about this content…
These relationships could provide the reason why the FBI and Sheriff David Ward were permitted such strong-handed tactics in what went down in killing LaVoy…
This is all speculation yes, but the post you are about to read is far from anything speculative as it is already happening…
It amounts to knowledge: What LaVoy May Not Have Known and You Should